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tv   The Cycle  MSNBC  October 2, 2013 3:00pm-4:00pm EDT

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evening. we are in the second day of the shutdown and lawmakers no cleescleese closer to a deal than day one. they will pressure leaders on both of the issues tonight. we'll begin with kristin welker at the white house and luke r s russe russe russert. >> reporter: what the meeting won't be is a negotiating session. carney just wrapped up his daily briefing telling us the president will reiterate his position and dig in his heels telling republicans he's not going to negotiate on his health care law over issues of a continuing resolution and increasing the debt limit to help him make his point, treasury secretary jack lew will be there to map up the economic impact. if this shutdown continues and if the nation defaults on its loans. so both sides continue to dig in at this hour. what's increasingly likely is we
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might see a deal on a continuing resolution and debt limit wrapped into one. in the meantime, president obama will continue to build up public support for his position tomorrow. he'll be speaking at the local construction company in the area and talk about the economic impact on the construction company. we know that the government shutdown having an impact on president obama, he has cut his asia trip short. he has cut off two countries he was planning to go to, including philippines and malaysia. instead, he will send his secretary of state john kerry to those countries. at this point the shutdown continues and the stalemate continues and it's not clear that this meeting that's scheduled here tonight at the white house is going to do anything to move these discussions forward. >> we know on policy, the budget and debt ceiling may merge here for political reasons. luke, what is the latest on the hill. >> the latest on the hill, republican aides tell me if
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republicans use this session to not negotiate as kristen reported, we're back to square one, to remind him of his position he doesn't want to move anywhere. the hill is broken down into the usual partisan bickering. we are having fights over which parts of the government the republicans want to fund. democrats say you can't pick and choose. now you're starting to see this pr war. you have a lot of republicans talking about the world war ii memorial that veterans are being locked out and democrats saying that children will not get funding through nih cancer program. it's going into these ugly partisan divide, which a lot of americans do expect from washington. that being said, the republicans just had a press conference, eric cantor talking about national parks and why they should be opened and you're hearing this message about national parks and veterans and about keeping d.c. up and running. the issue that brought us to a shutdown, the health care law is not being discussed on a daily basis on capitol hill.
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you shake your head saying, only in america can something like that be possible. as far as what's going to happen with the shutdown itself, there is a group of moderate republicans, they number about 15 and want to see a clean cr bill on the floor. democrats hope it gets up higher, possibly that boehner could be -- could move forward on that. however, there's no guarantee that would happen. from what i've been told, they want at least 150 or so republicans to go with the clean cr bill before they are comfortable putting that on the floor. now it's partisan fights that nothing that brought along the stalemate. >> safety in numbers. thank you to kristen and luke. i want to turn to the strangest part, which maybe that most of congress is against it. what gives? throughout american history we've seen breakthroughs where cooperation for the good of the country bridged great differences. there was even a name for it. leadership. a classic example is the way republican ronald reagan worked with tip o'neill, relationship
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characterized by spirited fighting and profound respect. as chris matthews writes, tip and the gipper when government worked. they believe government works best when people play by the rules. here's a quick look at that story. >> government worked because politicians talked to each other. i know because i was there behind the scenes and in those days i was a top aide to the speaker. that's me there checking to see how things are going. it was the toughest job i ever had but it was a front row seat to history. >> i remember when i first met president reagan myself in tip's office, welcome to the rumor we plot against to break the ice. in turn reagan reminded me, it's after 6:00, the speaker says in washington, we're all friends after 6:00. it was that spirit that made the historic compromises possible. >> author and "hardball" host chris matthews is here. thanks for being here. >> thank you.
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>> you've written a book that's remarkable for the personal history you weave with american history. the story you tell about how president reagan to doing a larger reform in '82 because he saw the economic evidence and got tip o'neill to work with them. >> first of all he tried to get tip to agree on social security cuts and that went nowhere because neither side wanted to take responsibility for touching the third rail of american politics. they tried that really a tough fight and the so-called summit in spring of '82. he got the word from bob dole, you've got to do something on the revenue side. they came to the grab bag of revenues and it was the largest tax increase in history. and democrats didn't want to -- who wants to raise taxes. they got together and tip said i'll give you 118 votes if you give me 100. and a lot of times they would cut deals like, you want tax reform in '85, give me 50. it was really wonderful haggling
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that went on and with the debt ceiling in '81, he goes, you want my votes? nobody wants to raise the debt ceiling. who wants to do that? give me a letter for each one of the guys asking him to do it and they'll do. there was a grown-up way of thinking, we can get through these messes. i don't want to say this is some sort of operator's guide for government because right now there's real polarization and a lot of republicans don't want to be seen being in the same room as the president. that's really changed. that's different than the old days when they didn't mind being seen together. reagan was laughing when he signed the tax reform bill and happy when he signed the social security. come on, buddy, i like the picture. that's different. >> where are the adults in the room? i can't think of a better time for the book to come out. >> it's weird, isn't it? >> you can't help but compare but as you've been speaking about there are times when reagan did get coverage to the
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democrats in the house. >> he means tested social security. who wanted to do that by taxing people that make $20,000 a year or month in addition to social security. let me give you all of the examples. there's so many, when we began the end of the cold war, reagan gets all the credit but tip went over there to meet gorbachev the first time. he represents all of us. gorbachev said, what's an opposition. tip said, we don't disagree on anything. >> can you imagine president obama sending speaker boehner to russia? >> one of our producers dug up, you saw bryant gum bell, hosting the today show, meeting with the new soef yet leader delivering a letter for the president of the united states they wants to meet him. no irony, normal. that's how things have changed.
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>> you were talking about how different things are today. we're trying to figure out where is john boehner's head, why wouldn't he bring a clean cr to the floor? do you see him as a weak speaker or do you think he's more a victim of the caucus? >> i think he's more of a traditional republican in a time of untraditional republicanism. i do believe this, it's a revolutionary party, going somewhere, i'm not sure where it's going to end up. but right now it's going to the right. the real leader of the republican party isn't even cruz, it's the guy, in the next town meeting in the back row yelling, treason, you sold us out. the one fear they have, and i understand it, i know politics, they are afraid of the guy screaming, you sold us out, i saw you with the president. you approved caroline kennedy for ambassador to japan. almost anything now counts as treason.
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they are afraid because then the whole crowd turns against the congressman. why did you vote? every time a vote comes to the floor in the next couple of weeks, it will be seen as pro or against obama. every time it's a possible vote about obama, it's very hard for john boehner so say vote pro obama if that's his position. but i do think they got to get away from health care. they've got to find something on overall spending, something to do with corporate tax rates and entitlement reform. they can't go after the baby -- i'm calling it the baby. usually the kidnapper grabs the baby and asks for the money, this time they grab the money and ask for the baby. not going to turn over his baby. >> doesn't work that way. >> nobody turns over the baby. >> really powerful idea of course that if the guy in the screamer the town hall really the leader of the gop, to that end, with from within your book which is beautiful and poetic,
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you're really telling a story. not a how to guide. you say the credit for their civility, talking about reagan and tip o'neill's civility, goes not to the off duty shared irish stories but the joint loyalty to american self-government, what both men deplored more than each other's philosophy was stalemate. and that's what we don't have, tip and ronnie put country before party. now we have a group of republicans, maybe not all of them, but a group of republicans who put party before country. >> it's very hard to say something and say one party is right or wrong. i can give you obama's weaknesses, he doesn't spend time with these people. he spent a lot of time developing relationships. he didn't instill fear in their hearts on the other side. one thing taught us all, fear is better than love. reagan when he broke that air traffic controller strike, they heard that am moscow and word got back to tip about it.
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these people took it seriously. he never had a moment where he cracked the enemy, you broke your contract and oath to the government, never work for the government again as long as you live. obama now has to prove to us, not just his position, which is hard to prove, he has to prove he's going to stick to it. that's the hardest thing he faces now. we've all heard about how world war 1 began, with both sides thinking the other side is not going to fight. they did and we had the worst war in history. i'm afraid they think he'll crack on health care, even boehner must think so and he's not going to do it. if he gives up that baby, he's given up his sort of proof he was president. >> his legacy. >> his legacy, his proof xbl absolutely. before we go, i want to ask about the scene in here when you talk about what matters and the relationship when president reagan was shot and tip o'neill was the first person in politics -- you have that seen, that haunts the country. you write that the speaker got
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down on his knees in the hospital room and offered a prayer, the 23rd psalm. tell us about that relationship. they saw each other as human beings. >> it was early in the relationship. i always say they met each other at the fundraiser, reagan was still a democrat, they would have been the best buddies in the world. what they fought over was party philosophy, reagan went from liberal to conservative. they didn't put up for congress in l.a. because he was too far left. he really moved. tip stayed. one lig piggy went to the market and one stayed home. that's the difference. but tip did, this is from an eyewitness, one other guy in the room, tip knelt down next to the president's bed and held his hands and they recited the lord is my shepherd, the psalm and kissed him on the forehead and said i hope you get better. and he said thanks for coming, tip. >> it's so real. another think about backing up
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with gorbachev, limits are important in politics. boxing drk the greatest boxer is mohammed ali, today you have extreme fighting, kick them in the nuts and the stuff that goes on in politics is totally different than it used to be. gouge his eyes out. that's not the way it was. >> there are no rules today. >> student of politics and lover of politics, thanks for spending time with us. >> thanks, chris. >> of course, you can catch "hardball" week nights at 7:00 eastern. up next, funding the government, tiny popular piece by piece to prove the government is too big and overreaching and maybe ineffective. we'll spin on all of that as the cycle rolls on. [ male announcer ] need help keeping your digestive balance in sync? try align. it's the number one ge recommended probiotic that helps maintain digestive balance. ♪ stay in the groove with align.
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♪ as many crs fly fast and furious between chambers of congress, house republicans trying to get positive stress and democrats swatting away the distracti distraction. it is fair to wonder, what the heck are they doing up there on the hill anyway? let's spin on that question, which is a big one indeed. of course, the house republicans latest gam bit is try to find just the pieces of government that are both most visible so the public would be the most upset about them and the pieces they happen to like. i thought jay carney last night on with chris hayes had the best quote on that. the right thing to do if they want to have government open is to open the government.
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which kind of puts it in perspective. you can't have bit by bit piece by piece and i think the democrats are right to hold strong here. chuck schumer had an interesting quote. let's listen to him. >> they are going to take a mile on the debt ceiling. >> that's the problem here. the sense is if they do negotiate on the cr, on the shutdown, if they do give a little bit, that's not going to take the passion out of the republican base, that is going to em bolden them for the next fight which is even more devastating over the debt ceiling. >> you put the politics perfectly and that's go to why this is a nonstarter. tlsz the deeper philosophical problem. we opened with britney spears "one more time", a big hit people remember. if you want to get the track on itunes, you don't have to buy the whole album. you can take what you want for your self because you're only thinking about yourself and what you want. >> right. >> that's not how america works.
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you can't just fund the part of the government you like. i think it's amazingly tone deaf and embarrassing that the house republicans on their top list put funding the d.c. local government operations, they are not fans of d.c. and won't even let d.c. have voting rights which is incredibly controversial because it's overwhelming african-american part of the country is that does have federal voting in the congress. they don't care about d.c. for that reason or its political authority, they only care about it because they live there. that's the essence of parochialism and caring about yourself and not the rest of the country. don't take my word for it. the polls show an incredible frustration with this kind of congress. i don't think the piecemeal hits them one eye oat ta. >> especially when the reality is the president and harry reid both said, we are not passing something that is not a clean cr, this is a waste of time. we're all beginning to really better understand the impacts of all of this.
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we've talked about you know, the health problems and nih, saying they are going to turn away about 200 people a week, a number of which are children that need to be treated for cancer. it is truly heartbreaking and more than 700,000 national park employees being furloughed. this is so real and this is the time when you think, maybe they should really be negotiating right now and be on the hill having these conversations to get something done. no, today there's no formal negotiation set for today. you wonder what in the hell is going on? >> what would they be negotiating about, the thing already adjudicated and what republicans are asking for to negotiate over punching you in the face. obviously obama is not going to deal with. an negotiation is, let me offer you something you might want in response for something i might want. rather than i have the money,
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give me your baby. and sort of the republican language around this is really disgusting. boehner talking about obama owns this and cantxor saying they won't negotiate. just as we talked about the media yesterday deliberately confusing people, now here are republicans unwilling to own the own shutdown and trying to confuse people and say no it's the democrat and obama who want to shut down. they don't want to listen to that any more than i want to listen to ari's ipod filled with britney spears. >> let me stop you there. i love britney spears, there's nothing wrong with an ipod with britney or christina. >> that's a burn but it's fair. there's a lot of britney on there. number two, on the politics here, tour'e, i think you put your finger directly on it. all of this talk of meetings and negotiation whatever they may do tonight doesn't matter when the
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opening offer is undo everything we said because we're blackmailing you. if you go in to buy a car and meet with the car dealer and says the car is $20,000, let me give you my offer, give me the car for free. you don't have a lot to negotiate over. if you wait a week and they are like, he's not calling about my offer where he gives me the car, everyone would tell you what i think america will tell the tea party, you're crazy. >> what if you played golf with the car dealer? >> that would be -- that makes a worlds of difference. >> that would be the thing that would make the difference if obama was more collegial and played more golf with them more friendly with them and, then they wouldn't -- gerrymander districts which will reward these folks for standing up and hosting the country hostage. that's the problem here. >> we will continue to watch this and talk about it. latddyes, listen up, we've got good news and bad news for you next.  [ male announcer ] research suggests cell health
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an initial court appearance this afternoon for the man behind an airport scare in florida, he allegedly told security screeners at jacksonville international last night that he had a bomb in his back pack. turns out it was an electronic scale and batteries, no actual bomb. the airport was evacuated and flights were canceled and they've been scrambling all day to get operations back on track. >> tom clancy has died. he was just 66 years old. clancy was an insurance salesman born in baltimore before he went on to write a series of blockbuster novels, best known for "the hunt for red october" and "clear and present danger." command authority is due out in early december. jerry sandusky's bid for a new trial has been denied. lawyers for the disgraced former
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penn state assistant football coach argue there wasn't enough time to prepare for the first trial and that the judge mishandled jury instructions. sandusky was sentenced up to 60 years in prison after being convicted of sexually abusing ten boys. it's been one year since mitt romney lost the bid for the white house. his wife sat down to talk about her husband's future endeavor. she did not rule out another run for the white house. she expressioned hope for the future of our country. >> america is again, the beacon of freedom around the world and it's the hope of the world. and we all as citizens have to contribute in every way we think possible to keep that strong. i think we can get down with that. the romney name is associated with the health care mandate in massachusetts. that has been noted as very similar to obama care or aca, the new nationwide online
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exchange launched yesterday with a number of websites crashing due to high traffic. now a public service announcement. >> obama care is here and the obama care horror stories are rolling in. your obama care off to a bumty start already, error glitches in the first run out. the federally run site exchanges in 36 states is posting error messages because it cannot handle the volume of traffic. >> too many people signing up is always the surest sign that nobody wants it. >> right, because logic. >> of course. we do want to turn today to who the law is helping. according to many policy analysts because so many of the old health care rules were literally unfair to women, the aca has helped women potentially the most by modernizing those rules. our next guest says the facts back this up, insurance companies can no longer deny coverage to people who had say a c-section or survived breast
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cancer and changing those rules that did effectively discriminate against women. now insurance companies are barred from charging minimum more than men as a baseline. elizabeth plank covers health care as an editor and conducted behavioral research as part of her masters work. why don't you start by telling us how obama care affects women as consumers and patients? xbl i think obama care has huge benefits for women all over the country. the glitches show it. millions have been signing up or getting information about the affordable care act which is great. it's no surprise considering that thanks to obama care being a woman is no longer a preexisting condition. women cannot be told because they had a c-sections you mentioned or survivor of breast cancer or survivor of rape, which have all been predetermined -- preexisting
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conditions which are very gendered and affect women. >> and regardless of what you think of obama care, you make the argument there has been a long held rule against women, for example, if you have preexisting conditions like a c-section, like breast cancer or if you're a victim of rape, then you're disqualified from getting coverage. i can't imagine. i didn't realize it was that bad for this. >> a lot of people haven't realized how that is in terms of what the affordable care act is doing for women and i think republicans, i understand why they are not excited about it because i think once -- it's already been ruled out once women and people generally realize how beneficial it is, they are not going to happy about it. >> elizabeth, i'm sure a lot of mothers out there will be happy to know they can keep their children on their plan until they are 26 and take care of their children a little bit better in that way. >> exactly. i'm one of them. young women 1.1 million women
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are on their parents' health care, which is amazing for a young workforce to be healthy, good for the economy and good for women. we also have a disproportionate amount of vulnerable populations that weren't able to get coverage, would be denied because of preexisting conditions or charged higher premiums which is really sexist in itself. we're moving to a system that really challenges inequalities. >> you were talking about how republicans once people are on obama care and it rolls on and they are happy with it, they'll have no chance of rolling this back and that's what they are afraid of. even the provisions specifically for women, republicans have been targeting we saw one of their last gambits before the shutdown was to add the quote/unquote conscience close to the cr. talk about what that is and what that would mean? >> i think that was the final slap in the face for american women. and if anyone -- if it was
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unclear that the republicans are waging a war on women, now it's very clear. saturday during the night they passed the clause which means that if your boss doesn't -- didn't think you should be under the control or doesn't want to cover it, he or she is allowed to do that. it's kind of a moral or religious reasons. which i don't -- i don't know if you like the idea or people at home like the idea of their boss determining making those decisions for them. i think a lot of women just were put off by that. >> it's interesting the way you put it, when you think about it as your boss or employer or private sector controlling your decisions and your body, i think it's very offensive. the piece of this that many people feel is more legitimate. in cases where religious institutions wants to deal with or provide healthcare, they don't want to be forced to do something they don't agree with. what struck me as so cynical about this, the administration had already bent over backwards to provide for that for private
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religious institutions, which under law first amendment law and a lot of religious views is different than the private sector. what do they get for doing that and working out the compromise? they get what looked to a lot of people like an attempted demagogue the issue. >> birth control is a need for a lot of women. a lot of women need it. for the republican party to still wage a war against birth control and contraception generally shows how out of touch they are with reality. >> and with women. >> exactly. >> consensus at the cycle table, i believe, at least for today. thanks for being here and telling us about your work. up next, no white house tour, no grand canyon hike, no panda cam? america's national treasures are being held hostage to washington. you knew that but we have folks from outside magazine to tell us how the impacts you may not see are important. stay tuned. ♪
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at this point we're waiting on congress, waiting to get the reauthorization to reopen. >> it's surprising things can shut down with a little argument in government. >> can only look in there and wish we could get in. it's a bummer. >> the fallout is simple tourists want to see a great monument of the country in our country and we don't get to see it. >> tourists around the nation turned away from the country's biggest treasures, our national parks and at this hour the house is trying to push through a mini spending bill to open the parks. but for now are closed indefinitely, including parks and monuments and zoos and special use permits for hunting and hiking and weddings we voeked leaving 715,000 tourists a day looking for new plans. after world war ii vets broke down the barricades on tuesday, the rnc just moments ago
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announced it will pay to keep it open for the next 30 days. grayson shaffer, senior editor for "outside" magazine. i know these represent so much more than beautiful pieces of land, there i am wake boarding at lake powell now closed. people are really feeling the effects today. >> yeah, thanks for having me. i'm here in new mexico. yes, i mean, the national parks one of the places where people are most acutely feeling shutdown. i spoke just this morning with a rafter who is stranded in the grand canyon with his entire trip where they've been, had their special use permit revoked. those are permits that take african five and 15 years to get and they are out somewhere between 15 and $30,000 for their permit and of course, you know, each of those dates are all
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located for all 365 days a year. if they miss their launch today, there's no -- there's no way for them to just put in tomorrow because there are other people who need to go in. so this is one of those places where you have people really acutely feeling the effects of the shutdown and very upset about it. >> and people planning weddings at a national park. it's more than just sort of a minor inconvenience for thoekz. but you're also looking at 86% of national park service employees furloughed. i mean there has to be a ton of just routine maintenance that goes into keeping these parks at the standard that we would expect them to be in and that we want them to be in. how much of that maintenance is not being done right now? >> this is something what i've talked to park supervisors lately, they talk about as resource degradation, they go down to a bare bones law enforcement staff. but essentially, you have these great treasures of the u.s. that
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are exposed to potentially to vandalism, erosion, just all of the sorts of things where they can fall into disrepair following these closures. >> i think your voice is to important here. the washington talk about saying what's essential and nonessential government is a very d.c. focused view. we have these areas all over the country and they are the pride of america because unlike a lot of places on earth, we don't just sell off our national treasures and some of the most beautiful areas to the highest bidder or let one rich people hold the land. we have a lot of areas starring with teddy roosevelt, i grew up climbing mount rainier and glacier national park. you can walk, bus, hike or drive and have that access, that seems a big part of america, not just government. >> absolutely. you've got some of these
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employees have been deemed nonessential, like search and rescue have been deemed nonessential and law enforcement have been deemed essential and some of those people are still on the job. in different parks you have them going at -- you have them basically taking an approach to how they are handling the shutdown. in the grand canyon, the officers there are locking people out and preventing them from using their special use permits in the air reserve in new mexico, those law enforcement officers will be opening the gates and allowing hunters into the park so they can use the highly coveted permits they've drawn. >> ari makes a great point. in so many ways they represent american culture. but talk about the economic impact that the shutdown is having with the fact these parks around the country are closed? >> you have -- i mean, 401 national park sites, 59 of those are actually national parks.
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and you know, just shy of 300 million people per year visit those every year. those are people who are filling hotels in the great smokey mountains national parks and hiring mountain guides in grand teton and guides in rainier, back in the grand canyon, some of the rafting outfitters that are you know, potentially having trips shut down will lose several hundred thousand dollars on each trip that's canceled. i spoke to one outfitter who had people who flew from new zealand holed up in flag staff waiting for their trip to launch and may be -- they may essentially be out the airfare and vacation time. >> so real and sad. thank you so much for joining us, grayson. >> from national parks to furloughs to closures, we want to know, has the shutdown made you any less helpful about the
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follies in d.c.? i always believed while dysfunctional could be used for good. let us know how you're being affected by the shutdown by using hash tag, don't shut me down. from the national beauty to the most bustling cities, bringing politics to the street level. who's fighting for who? [ female announcer ] it's simple physics... a body at rest tends to stay at rest... while a body in motion tends to stay in motion. staying active can actually ease arthritis symptoms. but if you have arthritis, staying active can be difficult. prescription celebrex can help relieve arthritis pain so your body can stay in motion. because just one 200mg celebrex a day can provide 24 hour relief for many with arthritis pain and inflammation. plus, in clinical studies, celebrex is proven to improve daily physical function so moving is easier. celebrex can be taken with or without food. and it's not a narcotic.
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♪ >> still feels like summer in the city. 83 degrees right now at nyc. down here in d.c., it's close to 90. happy october, people. it's not just the actual temperatures, we know the rhetoric is heated here in the capital as well on this day two of the government shutdown of 2013. so if you can't look behind me for answers, where can you look? well, let's look to our next guest. he says the answer is in the cities. where 86% of the jobs are created and only 3% of the american land mass. professor and director of the center for urban real estate at columbia university and author of "a country of cities", a manifesto for urban america. i love the book and it's beautiful to look through. congratulations on that. one thing that fascinates me and why i wanted you on the show. republicans are against government and entitlements and there's a fantastic map which
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shows how much each state is getting from the government per dollar that it sends to the government. and almost 100% the rural states are getting far more than they give and the states with cities are giving far more than they get. really the cities which tend to be blue are makers and the red states tend to be takers and yet here we are in a shutdown because the republicans are fighting against an entitlement that they would benefit from this. >> what it really shows, every american votes against their own self-interest. cities tend to be the big economic generators but we vote for more liberal policies because we leave in more social equity and things like that. most of the deficit is flowing from the red states. >> and to that point, the red states have more power because of the way the map is drawn and the fact that rural areas are larger. but we are seeing a shift from
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suburbs into the city compared to in 2000, 79% of the u.s. population lived in city,s now it's 81%, it's a small shift but significant when you consider it over a relatively short time period. are we going to see a natural power shift as well into the cities from the rural areas? >> i think we're going to have to, krystal, because what's driving this are the millenials, they are not moving to the burbs and the politics has to follow that trend. >> it's so true. they are not wanting to drive cars. the american dream is very different. since congress can't get anything done today. you make the argument we should be looking to the cities to solve our great national problems, including the economy. which cities are doing it right and what can we learn from them? >> virtually every city, even
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cities that were looking at abby that are in trouble, like detroit are doing very interesting things to recover. clearly new york is doing great but also dallas and houston. it's really a national trend. and if you look at what's happened with the are our natio treasures today. mayors can't afford to shut down their governments. they have to keep the garbage people collecting garbage and the cops on the streets. >> you mean they actually have to do their job? >> they have to do their jobs, abbey. >> talk to us about where financing fits into this. because cities and municipalities rely more on the private bond market, they don't have some of the benefits of the federal government. detroit, what i assume, some kind of counter example for you. >> well, yes. i mean, but to me, it's a very complex story, ari, because part of what happens in a city like detroit and why it has such financial trouble is, of course, that a lot of the way we have redistributed and so forth has left a lot of cities without the kind of financial resources they need. a city like new york, for
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instance, spends about $18 billion in taxes that it sends out to the federal and state governments, that it doesn't get back in receipts. and so what you end up with is these big economic engines, but they don't actually get to keep the wealth they create to build the things we need, great schools, parks, infrastructure and so forth. >> one of the things i was surprised to read and learn in your book is how cities are far greener than suburbs. and a lot of this happens without city dwellers even meaning to do it. and when you break down the real cost of what it takes one person in a city to run an errand on a subway train already going to run anyway versus having to get in a car, the real cost in the suburbs is far higher, and people in the cities are the eco future of this country. >> no question. the fact is, if you look at the per capita carbon footprint of a city dweller, it's much lower than folks have to drive to get a quart of milk. and what we're really seeing is that if we actually change the
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way we subsidize highways and gasoline and so forth and encourage people to live more urban lives, we would be economically, environmentally and socially better off as a country. >> and we think about the world as overpopulated. but you talk about this kind of blew my mind. we could put every person on the planet in a dwelling in texas, and if we just built it high enough. >> wasn't suggesting -- >> let's not try that. >> yes, you were. yes, you were. >> the idea was really that, you know, we actually probably don't have as much of a population crisis, as much of a crisis imagination in terms of how we live. >> professor, it's a beautiful book, and it's a powerful manifest. i hope people check it out oh. thank you for being here. up next, ari channels politic-fact with three things every american should know about the shutdown, no matter what side of the aisle you're on. before they sat down, one more time, just for themselves.
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the government shutdown this week. is it because politicians in both parties refused to compromise? or was it caused by one side rooting for our government to fail? i think we need to get the answer right if we want washington to work better. and i think the record shows that this shutdown is an avoidable crisis caused solely by house republicans. here are three reasons why. first, if you remember one thing about the shutdown, it's this. a majority of congress already opposes it. the senate voted to avoid it and a majority of the house would vote the same way, but speaker boehner never allowed that vote.
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house experts from our own nbc news reporters to the conservative national review count a majority that would be open to a clean funding bill again, if john boehner simply brought it to the floor. that means by standing in the way of majority rule, boehner took an avoidable shutdown and made it inevitable. number two. this is important. this is the first shutdown in history where there is no dispute about the budget. that's because the funding bill the senate agreed to was not the president's budget numbers. it wasn't halfway in between. it was $70 billion short of the democratic request, because the democrats simply accepted the sequester level funding cuts, demanded by the tea party. democratic whip steny hoyer has made that clear. >> what compromise are we talking about? we're taking your number! your number! and you will not take yes. for an answer. how sad. what a shameful day this is in
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the history of the house of representatives. >> do me a favor. if you hear anyone say both sides should get in a room and compromise, you can tell them they already did that when obama and the democrats accepted these conservative cuts. and finally, number three. the final reason we're here. obama care. you might be tired of hearing about it. i get that. i cover politics. but after getting the budget numbers they demanded, republicans turned to blackmailing the president over obama care. i think that was a stupid, irresponsible and futile plan. do a lot of independent experts who follow congress. if you want to give rbepublican the benefit of the doubt, here's what boehner said recently about this idea. >> i believe that trying to put obama care on this vehicle risked shutting down the government. that's not what our goal is. it's pretty clear the president was re-elected, obama care is the law of the land. >> boehner said those things, because he thought there was no chance he would have to adopt a
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plan that was so stupid, irresponsible and futile. and then he capitulated. he was against this before he was for it. and that's why we're in this jam, a costly shutdown, opposed by most of the public, most of congress and even by the very republican who engineered it. this is so strange, you might not believe it if you didn't see it yourself. and maybe that's why some people are in denial and want to blame it on washington being broken. it's true that the house is broken as an instrument of democracy. but look, if you come home to a crime scene, you don't just observe that a crime happened. if you find something you care about was broken, you don't just observe that it's broken. you figure out who did it. if washington is broken, it's because john boehner and the tea party broke it. that's it for us on "the cycle" today. we pass it on now to a man who knows a thing or two about speaker boehner. martin bashir. >> thank you, ari. good afternoon, it's wednesday october the 2nd. and in just over an

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